Tuesday, May 02, 2006

To legalize or not to legalize

I had refrained from blogging on this topic since I do not believe I understand all the issues at stake in this debate. Most people that I have talked with have a very myopic view of the situation and more often than not have a kneejerk reaction one way or the other. However, after reading Jacek's post and the subsequent comments, I decided to try to put down some of my thoughts. Some of my ideas might come across as half-baked but I guess that is part of understanding the problem. The more I talk about it, the more I hear other people's opinions, the more I'll learn.


So what is the issue here? The issue is illegal immigration. It is important to distinguish between illegal immigration and legal immigration. Ostensibly no one is saying they have a problem with legal immigration. It is the illegal aliens and thier status in this country that is up for debate. The reason I bring up the legal/illegal thing is that I have found unfortunately, that that line gets blurred sometimes and people club those two categories together.


Now, I think we can all agree that illegal immigrants *are* necessary for this country's economy. Or put another way, the jobs done by these illegal immigrants are jobs that your average American citizen is not going to be willing to do. Manual labor, housemaids, landscaping, serving in restaurants are just some jobs that come to mind. You will not find a lot of Americans willing to work for 6 dollars an hour to do that kind of work. You might find some school/college kids but that's about it. Also, if you divert some of the workforce towards these kind of jobs, there are fewer people available to do mid-level jobs in the workforce. There is lesser R&D. The country's growth might be affected (?).

Having said all that, I absolutely do not believe in granting illegal immigrants citizenship. That just wouldn't be fair to the hundreds of thousands of people going the legal route, paying taxes, paying their dues, contributing to this economy and waiting patiently for 5-10-15 years to become citizens. If every illegal alien who had lived in this country for 5 years automatically became eligible for citizenship, that would place an unimaginable burden on the INS which would be completely unfair to the legal immigrants. This is the first reaction that came to my mind given my own status and the situation that a lot of people I know are in or have been in i.e. legal immigrants on an F1 or H1 visa. However, on thinking about it a little more, I realize that to just consider my situation would be extremely myopic. This is a much bigger problem.

Another sticking poing is that people can’t just break the law and then demand certain rights. That just doesn’t sound right. That seems to imply that they should not be held accountable for their actions. But we can’t keep ignoring these people. They have families and kids. They have risked their lives to try to live the American dream. They are trying their best to build a better future for themselves. Purely from a humanitarian standpoint, they should be able to use the resources of this great country. Most times these are law abiding citizens who will be more than willing to contribute to society. Surely a country built by immigrants will find some place for them?

So the country does need a lot of these illegal immigrants, but we can't ignore the fact that they *are* illegal which means we shouldn’t just grant them citizenship. So what's the solution? A temporary worker program. Get them into the system but don't promise them citizenship. Make them go through the regular route if they want to be legalized citizens of this country. That way, you have addressed the security concerns, the humanitarian issues, the job scenario AND you have more taxable income. These people will even have to contribute to Social Security even though they won't get any benefit out of it (as is the case with legal immigrants).

To conclude, I must add that I haven’t really read a lot about this topic and won’t pretend to understand all the intricacies of the issues at stake. These are just my views from an average layman’s perspective.

11 Comments:

Blogger Juan Jose Gutierrez Barrow said...

I agree with most of your thougts, but I think the temporary worker status wont work in the long run, at least until you physically put a barrier at the border (yes, a wall would do it) and control the influx of people. Once you can get a grip on that, then you will be able to do what you (and many) propose.

5/02/2006 11:43 AM  
Blogger AynRand2008 said...

I want to comment on this statement of yours: "Manual labor, housemaids, landscaping, serving in restaurants are just some jobs that come to mind. You will not find a lot of Americans willing to work for 6 dollars an hour to do that kind of work. You might find some school/college kids but that's about it."

That would be what I thought if I was not exposed to many average Americans who work as maids or run "maid/cleaning" companies. If you work with small business owners, you will find many plumbing/cleaning/waste-management companies are run and operated by White male or female Americans. They are all born and raised here. Often, their family members are working as maids or cleaners (again, I am talking about white male or female who were born here and now in their 30s, 40s or 50s). A famous one around here is called Molly Maids. Everyone I saw there is white female who were born here. I am getting ready to hire them to clean my house , then put on the market.

5/02/2006 9:32 PM  
Blogger MJ said...

on the other side of the spectrum, every landscaper and maid i have seen in my 6+ years in the US in 3 different states, has been hispanic (no way for me to know how many of them were legal/illegal).

5/02/2006 10:13 PM  
Blogger AynRand2008 said...

Yeah, it is hard to tell whether they are legal or illegal. That is why I say if they are born here, chances are they citizens. Which part of the country do you live? I live in VA. One thing I know for sure is that you can request to see their business licenses. If they are sole-prop, they need a driver's license to get their business licenses. If they are incorporated, they need some other documents. The rule of thumb is that if they have no license, they are probably not insured either. So they can't pay for any damages that they do to your property in there is any. I only use the licensed ones.

5/02/2006 11:00 PM  
Blogger MJ said...

I only use the licensed ones.

what about the person serving you your taco at the taco bell? or the individual at the counter at your neighbourhood walmart? how do you check whether they're legal?
you were asking about walmart on your blog, here is the first link that pops up on google: http://immigration.about.com/b/a/162521.htm

and this is only 1 company and 1 instance that garnered publicity.

5/02/2006 11:10 PM  
Blogger AynRand2008 said...

Thanks for the link. I remember reading it now. I think Wal-mart deserved to be fined and the court has set a good example.

"what about the person serving you your taco at the taco bell? or the individual at the counter at your neighbourhood walmart? how do you check whether they're legal?"
-- You see, that is why I leave it to the court or police to enforce those laws. As a customer, my job is pay for the services that I received. It is law enforcement's job to verify the legal status of certain employees. However, if I know of a certain taco bell is hiring illegals for sure, I just won't go there. I will encourage the person who has such intimate knowledge to contact law enforcement, because not reporting a known offense has legal implications as well.

5/02/2006 11:28 PM  
Blogger MJ said...

i can keep refuting every point you are making but like i said on your blog, we'll just keep going round and round in circles. you refuse to come off your moral high horse and look at the ground reality and accept the situation i.e. these people are here and we need to deal with it and deporting them is not realistic.

5/02/2006 11:37 PM  
Blogger ... j said...

Alot of good points, however note that a lot of illegals earn less than the 5.15/hr min wage. All around I agree with a lot of your points, and a gues worker program is the best solution, of course it wont put an end to x,y,z, but its a solution and provides incentives for the migrant workers, and the feds.

Cheers,

- J

5/03/2006 8:33 PM  
Blogger ... j said...

ps. the cosmic game is a great album :)

5/03/2006 8:44 PM  
Blogger Marina said...

Pervert!!!


It is true though, I do look like a porn star with my hair up and a pair of glasses :)

5/04/2006 10:21 PM  
Blogger Marina said...

well SOMEONE has to give the Dell a little love....I think I am going with the X60 though :)

5/05/2006 4:46 PM  

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